Netroots UK will bring together hundreds of grassroots activists in central London for a day of workshops, discussions and networking activity.
- Hear from innovative and effective campaigns in other fields.
- Make useful contacts with key people and organisations.
- Get practical training in digital techniques and technologies.
- Take part in the debate on the future of UK activism.
Netroots UK is on this Saturday. Just look at the above, what is meant by “key people”? Or “innovative and effective campaigns”…does that mean actual grassroots campaigning organisations on the ground fighting the cuts? What do you want to get out from the day? Who precisely is it bringing together a rag-tag of fink tanks, very soft lefts and TU bureaucrats. Not the engagement I’m looking for. What about innovative individuals fighting against closures of libraries, council services, playgroups, care facilities, attacks on benefits, jobs…and so on and so on. Looking at the whole programme for the day just definitely does not appeal to me. Why? Because it’s defunct of radicalism. It’s also makes me wonder what the organisers actually truly believe what activism is? An example, look at the keynote speakers, the day can be described as fink tanks and soft lefts tinged with Fabianism. There are some organisations/individuals I would be very interested in listening to such as False Economy, UK Uncut, Disabled People Against Cuts and around the student protests. But where are the grassroots activists who are involved in their own localities fighting the cuts, and where are the trade union activists fighting the cuts in their workplaces. Surely, it is more important to listen to ordinary people out there who are fighting the cuts in a dogged determination than to Polly Toynbee? What has the Toynbee got to offer other than confused Fabianism?
If this purports to be a day of networking with grassroots activists then I would prefer to make contact and show solidarity with actual, real activists on the ground fighting the cuts, not listening to fink tanks. A day like Netroots could actually bring anti-cuts activists, trade union activists, student activists, disability rights activists…anyone who is against these vicious cuts… could come together, network, swap ideas, stories, useful tips, dos and don’ts of organising, learning lessons…and so on. More fruitful, more pragmatic and it also brings together activists, geographical understanding of what’s happening in parts of the country. That would be my thing not listening to spineless TU bureaucrats who had consistently sold-out and betrayed workers (sorry Owen sometimes it has to be said). Do I want to listen to a load of bluster by Brendan Barber as by christ I have heard it once too often? Where are the rank and file TU activists on the panel who have been campaigning against the cuts? Shame and embarrass Barber in showing that resistance can be done, something which he should be at the forefront of but isn’t.
But what of the politics of this day? Soft left with a large dollop of Fabianism (with a smattering of Lib-Dems and Tories…so much for progressiveness and being left-wing). It’s useful to have an internet dynamic as that is becoming an integral part to organising (facebook, Twitter, blogging) but it is no substitute to, say, lobbying MPs (actually that would be more usual…how do you lobby your MP in the real world as opposed to online), organising meetings, literature, who to contact, leafleting, media involvement, local trade unions, trades councils, local Labour parties and so on. Bringing people together who may not have the luxury of online communication. Obviously, the internet can capture more activists instantly than previous methods of advertising but you still need to organise on the ground collectively, you still need those structures. You still need old style methods of organisation. Also, will this be one day of talking and everyone goes home? What kind of netroots will be sown?
The trouble with the soft left is that there’s a tendency to talk left vote right as epitomised by Jon Cruddas (Compass backs this day too), along with other friendly bland middle class lacking-class-struggle-analysis orgs and individuals. And where are the MPs who have consistently fought against cuts consistently in Parliament and outside like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Katy Clark….. ? Nowhere on any of the panels….
It looks like a corporate style A-Z of cyber communication. But is that what activists, need and want? Cyber struggle and organisation has its important place. Personally, I’d prefer a DIY day of networking (don’t particularly like that word as it smacks corporate) with activists out in the real world fighting the realities of cuts.
NB: This is a comment I made at Simon’s blog on the same issue (excellent post too)
An elitist day mainly for self-serving careerists who want to boost their employment prospects, why would you want to listen to the clever conceited chatterati banging on about the bleeding obvious (“We are faced with cuts”…. Really? Who knew that… Blimey shocker of the week). Frankly, I want to hear ordinary rank and file trade unionists talking about fighting the cuts, students demonstrating newly active evolving political consciousness, anti-cuts campaigners, disability rights activists…. I don’t wanna hear Serco friendly Toynbee, Hari, bloody Tim “Tory” Montgomerie (I mean, c’mon why invite the class enemy along with a LibDem?). Oh, and Brendan Barber….shame he can’t spend the same amount of time he did helping to organise this event at the forefront of workers’ resistance against the cuts, confronting the ConDems head on as opposed to the usual mealy-mouthed pathetic approach. He’s an embarrassment to the trade union movement!
Indeed people on the bottom 10% decile are more less likely to own a computer let alone have internet connection, while it is no surprise that the top 10% decile vast majority do. And who will be affected by the cuts the very people who can’t get access to activism on line, to be honest, would they want to? It doesn’t come across as inclusive and indeed looks very middle class. Campaigning against the cuts where poverty and deprivation exists it is really going to be difficult to reach out to them cyber-style. BTW I am not ant-cyberspace I mean I communicate through blogging, twittering and face book and it is an important tool, it has a place in organisation, for activism but it is no political substitute for real life activism.
Instead of putting on these Activism 2.0 events (Splintered Sunrise hit nail on the head), it is about engaging people based on inclusivity (libraries, one of many examples, are a place where people, who don’t own them, use computers but with closures and cuts that access will disappear ) and equality, reaching out to people who don’t have access or just don’t see the relevance of internet activism then you also need to resort to the usual “old fashion” means of organisation, all forms of engagement are vital you can’t substitute one for the other.
does anyone else feel this talk of “cyberactivists of the 21st century” to be all rather faddish? Seasoned veterans of struggles old and new will no doubt remain mildly skeptical. While tehnology provides a radical tool it is those involved in community campaigns who are the foot soldiers for this movement. There also needs to be a wider debate about the kind of society we want to live in drawing out wider lessons from these struggles, I somehow doubt this will provide that forum.
Agree Bob, it does seem a tad faddish. I absolutely agree with your comment. Cyberspace does provide a radical tool but there has to be a wider inclusive debate about this and the lessons to be learned.
How do you know they won’t be there, doing what you would like to see, and these people go on to do what you would like to be done?
Why can’t that be done as well? What is the point of limiting the resistance? The more the merrier!
It’s the politics behind the day. Also, how far and wide has this been advertised. Where are the anti-cuts activists on the panel? Camden Unison members fighting the cuts, Hammersmith and Fulham activists fighting the cuts, ordinary students being kettled, activists fighting in their own areas against closures whether swimming pools to libraries to council facilities (Kate B. has done tremendous work on this). I would prefer to see someone from Hammersmith and Fulham Unison member talking about fighting the cuts than bloody Toynbee et al.
I can’t say about the British version, but the original US Netroots conventions are efforts by conservative Democrats to keep liberals and progressives in line.
@earwicga I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having such an event at all and if I was in London this weekend (I’m not – I’m travelling round the northeast talking to people who are dealing with public sector cuts), I’d probably go along.
My problem generally is a feeling that the real people are being pushed aside by the usual interest groups – TUC, big media, etc – all panting for control, publicity and a slice. The TUC makes me particularly nervous.
I really, really hope that this kind of event leads to even bigger things in the protest sense, and that all kinds of people are introduced to each other to push things ahead. It’s just a bit hard at times not to feel like this is the glamour end of things and that important – rather than relevant – people are the priority.
That’s not to say that such events shouldn’t go ahead – I can’t imagine anyone thinks that. It’s merely to say that they get an awful lot of coverage and support where the more mundane stuff just doesn’t. I don’t think, for example, that the mainstream media has done a reasonable job AT ALL of covering the cuts horror stories that are already out there – the likes of the Guardian should be all over every single council and every single story. People are being cut out of the consultation processes on spending that will determine the course of their lives and so on – there are all kinds of stories there.
I wish them well, but have little interest in or expectations of this kind of event. I predict the most concrete result will be a new e-mail list to facilitate co-operation, which will quickly degenerate into just another list for each group involved to spam their events on (which to be fair, we’re all guilty of and personally I’d rather get spammed by events I have no interest in rather than not find out about something I’d have wanted to go to).
I’m registered, I’m going for work purposes and need to know some more (probably very simple) things about the on-line side of what i do. Obviously no illusions in the politics of the whole event, but might learn something useful. Who knows, I might even get an audience in the coffee bar.
Will let you know my thougts afterwards.
Yes, I can see the necessity of understanding on-line organisation but would it not be better, maybe, having activist workshops ongoing as opposed to one offs like this, you have the speeches about strategy and then the pragmatism of cyber organising. Just very cynical about the whole thing.
Yes, Guido good to know your thoughts thanks!
But where are the grassroots activists who are involved in their own localities fighting the cuts
There’s a session just for that!
But Sunny, where are the grassroots activists on the panel, session good idea but why not one of them giving a keynote speech as well?
How about getting in on the ground floor of Netroots North and you can help make it into something with ‘networking’ and LRC involvement?
Rick, do you have contact details for Netroots North?
What about innovative individuals fighting against closures of libraries, council services, playgroups, care facilities, attacks on benefits, jobs…and so on and so on.
Sorry but who said there won’t be any discussion of this? Why are you making the assumption that we’re not interested in involving individuals or groups fighting against cuts to care facilities, to benefits and jobs?
Let’s refer to what I said this morning on LC:
I’m not sure I could be any more stark than that.
And I said
That is me clearly saying we don’t care about the cuts… right?
What has the Toynbee got to offer other than confused Fabianism?
Ahh yes, those bastard Fabians. They’re not really left-wing… they might as well be in the Tory party.
You also say:
A day like Netroots could actually bring anti-cuts activists, trade union activists, student activists, disability rights activists…anyone who is against these vicious cuts… could come together, network, swap ideas, stories, useful tips, dos and don’ts of organising, learning lessons…and so on.
And I say this morning:
I’ve got little else to say.
Sunny, think you need to learn your Fabian history. You get very defensive btw.
. Do I want to listen to a load of bluster by Brendan Barber as by christ I have heard it once too often?
He’s got a 2 min slot right at the beginning to just introduce people.
Given that the TUC have helped us organise this and put in the money – I think letting Mr Barber introduce the day is the least we could do.
FFS – I’d listen to more criticism from the socialist left if it didn’t completely ignore everything others were saying.
Shame Barber can’t spend even two minutes of his time defending workers by confronting the cuts head on as opposed to offering a faux radical edge which doesn’t exist.
“FFS – I’d listen to more criticism from the socialist left if it didn’t completely ignore everything others were saying.”
Firstly, I’d have a sit down and take a few deep breaths before reaching for the keyboard typing in your usual defensive manner. Secondly, I am not ignoring everything others are saying, it’s called debate and critique. Maybe that’s lost on you with your own quick to become defensive.
I really like what you are saying on here and have just started writing on the internet as I’ve heard about this “cyberactivist” movement and wanted to try invoking some debate to develop my own opinion. However in my head I want to get to grips with what the basis of politics is for people and how we combine our ideas into a movement as one of my feelings is that politics being fractured is not the best thing as it’s easy to redirect people’s focus if it’s alot of separate issues. But I think this is what is the start of “a wider debate about what sort of society we want to live in”. Second thing I want is for it all not to remain thought, but to turn into action.
The question I get from reading this then is how can you create large scale changes from small scale movements? For example attending these events, both the positively viewed and negatively viewed in the above, could make differences in a locality for a time but I feel the problem is on a much larger scale and so does it not need some kind of large scale movement. This isn’t a critical question but an openly naive one from myself asking for answers. What I imagine is some sort of slow build up of linking of smaller groups like what you’ve suggested between Rick and HM above. Another one is that there is a way of changing it through small groups. But I’m not sure and that’s why I’m asking…….????
Gareth, think people are genuinely thinking about how to construct a movement, there are questions around new technology and how we relate to each other. There’s no easy answers as there’s more than one component in building an alliance.
Louise this post is embarrassing – especially considering you were having a go at me only a few days ago for criticising the socialist left for being too easy to dismiss others who didn’t strictly follow in their footsteps.
It’s like Lenin writing about how the SWP aren’t sectarian and the next day trawling through someone’s FB page so he could pin things on him to make him sound like some ultra-Blairite monster just because he happened to support mutuals.
Tell me this is a parody, just so its not so painfully obvious that you don’t actually practice all the stuff that you preach about unity and coalition building.
Really Sunny? Is that program you posted on Lib Con not, you know, ever so slightly embarrassing? How women can get engaged online? How to look good protesting? Those are jokes, right? As far as I can see Harpymarx hasn’t gone anywhere near far enough in her criticisms: this is a day long meet up session for a load of middle class media and Twitter luvvies who think that clicking on a link is all you need to do to make a difference.
Sometimes I get the feeling that some of you ought to turn your Blackberries and iPhones off for a day and realise that the entire world does not revolve around the fucking internet, and that while it helps to organise protests and resistance, it is not going to foment an uprising or even anything beyond the few student protests we’ve seen so far. It might just help.
Septicisle, you pretty much say it all tho’ in original post I was trying to be polite
But I agree re middle class media types and Twitter luvvies though.
Talking of parodies …. I really hoped that the session on “How to look good protesting” was a lark… But alas not it seems. Will there be some fashion expert to activists informing what’s in and out re protesting? Designer protesting …. perchance? I used to go for the goth style but that was over 20 years ago…. Maybe I can do the dos and don’ts.
Sunny, I haven’t written anything about mutuals just criticised this Trot bashing which is worrying and has a witch-hunting feel about it. I have entered my own opinion & critique about what I think of the politics of this conference I have not indulged in insulting language or name calling. I haven’t used my criticism of Fabianism as an insult or vilification there is a political debate about the evolvement of Fabianism and its impact in the Labour Party. Also, my own take on the “soft left” have I resorted to name calling?
No, I prefer a political debate.
Exactly. I’m a cyber-enthusiast, but technology is neither a substitute for concrete organisation, or compensation for rubbish politics.
Thanks Simon, pretty much sums things up…
Hi there
I’m going to the conference. I was initially enthused and then a little disappointed by the list of workshops, but I’m still going with an open mind.
I’m a lecturer in journalism and a new convert to wanting to play a role as an activist. I teach new media, blogging, etc and I know that technology is a tool not an end in itself. And that’s fine, let’s have a conference where tools are engaged with so we can share expertise and perhaps find ways to really make online effective in this fight. I can’t see any problem with that.
I’d rather see this conference as an opportunity for BOTH/AND rather than EITHER/OR. And maybe I’m ‘soft left’ although I don’t really know what that means. I’m not too concerned with such labels. But this looks like an opportunity for me (who is a local, getting involved with Counterfire and student protests and UCU protests in my region) to both contribute and get back some knowledge in moving things along in the fight against the cuts. I’ll hope to bring back to the North East what I learn/contacts I make and contiunue to build the coalition.
“Make useful contacts with key people and organisations”, eh? You have nothing to lose but your chains.
Louise is spot on about this, as I’ve said already, and as the level of reaction from Sunny pretty much confirms.
I think it’s periodically worth while pointing out that the commentariat/ think tank crew are emperors with no clothes. But the priority has to be to build the proper left, to put down roots in communities (actual physical ones, with houses and shops and stuff) and trade unions. The luvvies who run this type of thing might draw off a few student activists who would otherwise be drawn to proper politics. That’s a shame, but the best way to stop it happening is to provide a vibrant left-wing alternative. And there are millions of people outside the catchment area for Netroots. I suspect it is only a slight exaggeration to describe this group as ‘the working class’.
Good stuff Louise,
this is a middle class love in.
Andy
yeah those bloody middle class types! dirty splitters and traitors.
thanks for confirming your sectarian attitudes ‘comrades’. Best of luck with your revolution.
yeah those bloody middle class types! dirty splitters and traitors.
What do the Liberal Democrats have to do with this?
My thoughts, very briefly:
1. This was all about the cuts, I went with a “Migrants Rights Worker” hat on – that side of things didn’t get a look in.
2. It was a political event, taken from Netroots Nation in the States, with a few of the people involved there speaking in London, they too were surprised at the content being almost exclusively about the cuts and less so about how we actually utilise the tools of social media (I may have gone to the wrong sessions on this).
3. Polly Tonybee was terrible, she told us what was being cut and why we should oppose the cuts. Thanks Polly.
4. I left early In hindsight I wish I’d got there later and stayed later – the networking side of things seems to me to be the most valuable.
5. There was a significant amount of dissent there, but that’s what you’re going to get with a reformist / autonomist event.
6. The SWP were nowhere to be seen – it must be conference weekend
7. I think I should have gone to the sessions on “how to use twitter” and such like, but they never really appealed.
8. I did enjoy the morning workshop on Theories of Change: planning your campaign, mostly because it wasn’t exclusively about onliney stuff.
That is all I have to say at this point. Discuss…
Cheers Guido
it’s a waste of time to have Toynbee on the panel if that’s all she can muster and that’s all she can muster it represents her politics of Fabianism. Pretty much what I expected from your report. Technology is important and has its place but it can’t substitute political real life on the ground grassroots activism
Btw how was Brendan Barber?
Btw Guido, what came out of the day? Was there plans for the “way forward” in taking Netroots onwards?
[...] before the event took place some sceptical voices made themselves heard (such as my from my friend HarpyMarx – see in particular the debate on the comments thread) arguing that the grouping of “soft [...]
from Red pepper, they wwren’t convinced either:
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=7501
They don’t seem to do they…..